SFTP - Refresh button

Report issues, odd behaviors or submit a detailed bug report.
inspector71
Posts: 153
Joined: 22 Sep 2017 07:59

SFTP - Refresh button

Post by inspector71 »

*Sigh*

Thanks for fixing the bug but geez, one thing fixed, another piece of basic functionality has gone mysteriously missing.

Fairly sure there was a refresh button on the FTP menu.

I really wish there was a way you could let me QA the FTP functionality.

After all, I seem to be the only one either posting in here about it and / or having continuous trouble with it, I guess :(

Probably just me.

But I hate having to come in here and feel like I am poking sticks at your work. Would much rather get in and help you before the fact.

User avatar
pjj
Posts: 1934
Joined: 13 Oct 2009 13:48
Location: Kraków, Poland

Re: SFTP - Refresh button

Post by pjj »

inspector71 wrote:
21 Mar 2021 04:07
After all, I seem to be the only one either posting in here about it and / or having continuous trouble with it, I guess :(
I haven't had any problems whatsoever with ftp, until I started using it a couple of days ago 8) RJ TE kept on closing connection, so I thought it was my server fault and switched to uploading files through the two-panel file manager I used; now I'm not so sure. All in all, being able to reliably edit files on ftp in the editor now seems to me like a very useful option.
Alium tibi quaere fratrem; hic, quem tuum putas, meus est. Titus Flāvius Caesar Vespasiānus Augustus

User avatar
yereverluvinuncleber
Posts: 297
Joined: 20 Apr 2018 09:49

Re: SFTP - Refresh button

Post by yereverluvinuncleber »

Sorry to be a downer but I just use a good FTP tool, WinSCP when I need to FTP. I expect my editor to edit - and my FTP tool to FTP. I think RJTextEd should not try to be two tools that require differing skills to maintain. The FTP side of things must be drawing Rickard's attention away from his Magnus Opus, ie. the Editor, all the time.

Perhaps it is time to liaise with the developer of WinSCP to obtain some connectivity between the two tools?
"Noli pati a scelestis opprimi"... or is it "non lacessit illegitimae te carborundum"?

You can find me on Deviantart https://www.deviantart.com/yereverluvinuncleber/gallery/

inspector71
Posts: 153
Joined: 22 Sep 2017 07:59

Re: SFTP - Refresh button

Post by inspector71 »

pjj wrote:
21 Mar 2021 16:36
inspector71 wrote:
21 Mar 2021 04:07
After all, I seem to be the only one either posting in here about it and / or having continuous trouble with it, I guess :(
I haven't had any problems whatsoever with ftp, until I started using it a couple of days ago 8) RJ TE kept on closing connection, so I thought it was my server fault and switched to uploading files through the two-panel file manager I used; now I'm not so sure. All in all, being able to reliably edit files on ftp in the editor now seems to me like a very useful option.
Thanks for your contribution. Note I have not mentioned that connectivity caching issue ... maybe ever but certainly not recently. I was trying to be as reasonable as I could be in terms of not complaining too much and self prioritising the issues. Have been well aware of this but as it's not necessarily an issue that costs as much time as the whole editor crashing, freezing before it does, thought I would keep it aside :)

Appreciate not being the lone voice now. Thanks pjj

inspector71
Posts: 153
Joined: 22 Sep 2017 07:59

Re: SFTP - Refresh button

Post by inspector71 »

yereverluvinuncleber wrote:
21 Mar 2021 17:29
Sorry to be a downer but I just use a good FTP tool, WinSCP when I need to FTP. I expect my editor to edit - and my FTP tool to FTP. I think RJTextEd should not try to be two tools that require differing skills to maintain. The FTP side of things must be drawing Rickard's attention away from his Magnus Opus, ie. the Editor, all the time.

Perhaps it is time to liaise with the developer of WinSCP to obtain some connectivity between the two tools?
Would I be correct in assuming "when I need to FTP" means you do not FTP that much?

Suspect those writing compiled code might well just FTP rarely, such as their binaries for other to access, and that would suit a separate, dedicated program. Those writing dynamically compiled code that eventually has to run on a server may well use SFTP a whole lot more. Been there, done that. Shortcomings of the ancient WsFTP (only 8.3 file names, yay!) notwithstanding, grossly inefficient.

In terms of taking attention away, what else could be removed as well? Not to be overly facetious (would not work online anyway :? ) ...

Atom and other editors throw settings in a JSON file. Devs have to edit code before they get a usable editor!

Where is the line drawn?

Dual document view? If willing to juggle focus between apps (RJTE and WinSCP) why not just twin - or more - RJTE instances?

Where is the line drawn?

Character viewer? Windows had a utility for that last century and keeping up with Unicode releases might well be more effort than SFTP support.

Where is the line drawn?


Regardless, this thread would hopefully not represent an unreasonable time-sinking request unless the Refresh button was removed due to broken functionality. Must admit, I have assumed - until just now - it was accidentally omitted and would be more or less just a case of adding the GUI button back.

Diff tools? Myriad dedicated diff apps exist such as WinDIFF (never used myself though).

Where is the line drawn?

In-editor browser previews? I do web code and have never used this. There's these apps called dedicated browsers after all and those are going to be the apps where code needs to be run and tested :)

Where is the line drawn?

We need to be careful in merely dismissing or calling for the removal of components just because we do not use them.

OTOH if Rickard just will not open source RJTE so many hands can bug fix, perhaps converting components into open-sourced Add-ons is the logical way forward? Are there APIs for the existing extension support?

User avatar
pjj
Posts: 1934
Joined: 13 Oct 2009 13:48
Location: Kraków, Poland

Re: SFTP - Refresh button

Post by pjj »

inspector71 wrote:
22 Mar 2021 09:25
We need to be careful in merely dismissing or calling for the removal of components just because we do not use them.
I don't want to speak in the name of anybody else, but I didn't read yereverluvinuncleber's comment as a "call for removal"; I would say it was in line of your next statement:
inspector71 wrote:
22 Mar 2021 09:25
OTOH if Rickard just will not open source RJTE so many hands can bug fix, perhaps converting components into open-sourced Add-ons is the logical way forward? Are there APIs for the existing extension support?
In my opinion you hit the nail on the head. Opensourcing RJ TE would bring more eyes and hands to its code, but I understand and respect Rickard's position. The way out is to make editor's architecture open, enabling users to write plugins. Scripting engine used by RJ TE is quite powerful and many things can be done by calling external tools via CL, but plugins could be even more powerful and useful. There are tons of plugins for many popular programs: code editors, browsers, file managers, you name it. I believe RJ TE could have them, too, and would greatly benefit from them.

Ah, and as for the refresh button: I can't be sure, but the following screenshot taken from RJ TE on-line help suggests there wasn't anything like that in the near past:
Image
Alium tibi quaere fratrem; hic, quem tuum putas, meus est. Titus Flāvius Caesar Vespasiānus Augustus

inspector71
Posts: 153
Joined: 22 Sep 2017 07:59

Re: SFTP - Refresh button

Post by inspector71 »

pjj wrote:
22 Mar 2021 10:35
inspector71 wrote:
22 Mar 2021 09:25
We need to be careful in merely dismissing or calling for the removal of components just because we do not use them.
I don't want to speak in the name of anybody else, but I didn't read yereverluvinuncleber's comment as a "call for removal"; I would say it was in line of your next statement:
inspector71 wrote:
22 Mar 2021 09:25
OTOH if Rickard just will not open source RJTE so many hands can bug fix, perhaps converting components into open-sourced Add-ons is the logical way forward? Are there APIs for the existing extension support?
In my opinion you hit the nail on the head. Opensourcing RJ TE would bring more eyes and hands to its code, but I understand and respect Rickard's position.
Agreed however I just re-read the FAQ about not open sourcing. I guess maybe Rickard does not want anyone to even view the code at all, but the reference to Rickard being very protective of his code and not allowing his mother to see it unsupervised seems a little strange relative to the possible structure of an open source project. I wonder if Rickard knows an open source project could be set up with Rickard being the final judge of whether code gets included or rejected in RJTE.
pjj wrote:
22 Mar 2021 10:35
The way out is to make editor's architecture open, enabling users to write plugins. Scripting engine used by RJ TE is quite powerful and many things can be done by calling external tools via CL, but plugins could be even more powerful and useful. There are tons of plugins for many popular programs: code editors, browsers, file managers, you name it. I believe RJ TE could have them, too, and would greatly benefit from them.

Ah, and as for the refresh button: I can't be sure, but the following screenshot taken from RJ TE on-line help suggests there wasn't anything like that in the near past:
Image
Maybe I am just ultra confused. Definitely a possibility.

User avatar
pjj
Posts: 1934
Joined: 13 Oct 2009 13:48
Location: Kraków, Poland

Re: SFTP - Refresh button

Post by pjj »

inspector71 wrote:
22 Mar 2021 10:45
I wonder if Rickard knows an open source project could be set up with Rickard being the final judge of whether code gets included or rejected in RJTE.
I'm positive he knows this :) I'm also positive he knows about forks :lol: The things is, however, that you can write a plugin to a closed source application, if you know its API, example being many plugins for Total Commander. TC is not an open source program, and yet there's a plethora of extensions. Why? Because you can. (Same thing goes with the file manager I use, i.e. Altap Salamander. It is not actively developed and won't be anymore, but there's a SDK and people can write their own plugins. ...Actually there's one powerful plugin being developed, a proxy for TC plugins, but that doesn't invalidate my point.)
Alium tibi quaere fratrem; hic, quem tuum putas, meus est. Titus Flāvius Caesar Vespasiānus Augustus

inspector71
Posts: 153
Joined: 22 Sep 2017 07:59

Re: SFTP - Refresh button

Post by inspector71 »

pjj wrote:
22 Mar 2021 11:25
inspector71 wrote:
22 Mar 2021 10:45
I wonder if Rickard knows an open source project could be set up with Rickard being the final judge of whether code gets included or rejected in RJTE.
I'm positive he knows this :) I'm also positive he knows about forks :lol: The things is, however, that you can write a plugin to a closed source application, if you know its API, example being many plugins for Total Commander. TC is not an open source program, and yet there's a plethora of extensions. Why? Because you can. (Same thing goes with the file manager I use, i.e. Altap Salamander. It is not actively developed and won't be anymore, but there's a SDK and people can write their own plugins. ...Actually there's one powerful plugin being developed, a proxy for TC plugins, but that doesn't invalidate my point.)
Good point about forks.

The DiskInternals Reader Linux partition tool in a file explorer? Wow! Never really used TC. Grown tired of ... Hey, stop making me chase your off topic bait 😁

API documentation?

There's this:

https://www.rj-texted.se/Forum/viewtopi ... =19&t=2913
For more information on how to create an extension - please look in the program help.
Using phone ATM. Everything is shitty on phones but I got there 😁

Speaking of, wonder if Rickard would like me to have a go at making his site usable on phones. Might be surprised that it does not take anywhere near as much work as some might suggest.

User avatar
yereverluvinuncleber
Posts: 297
Joined: 20 Apr 2018 09:49

Re: SFTP - Refresh button

Post by yereverluvinuncleber »

Well, that is my point, let others do what they do best and instead of trying to replicate their knowledge and success and always trying to catch up with their already complete implementation, instead, let their success carry you along by allowing your own tool to interface through APIs perhaps...

With regard to APIs in general:

I have already suggested to Rickard that others might like to use the RJTextEd as the Editor component in their own tool, as I know people who are now building IDEs for certain languages. They don't want to build an editor from scratch and it would make sense to utilise a pre-existing tool such as RJTextEd that had some APIs to allow it to to interface externally. When I raised this, he wasn't receptive to the idea at that point but I believe he isn't seeing the full picture. I know four development teams that are working on full IDEs (parsers, compiler, interpreter, debugger, interface, forms designer) and the last thing they want to do is to design a comprehensive code editor from scratch (a previous IDE product from a developer I know well, failed due to the editor component receiving too little attention and being considered inadequate for the job). I would suggest that the new RJTextEd light might be the tool to introduce the APIs to allow it to be utilised by others as their default editor.

Back to FTP:

Rickard doesn't have to open his code but perhaps add some APIs that allow other tools to incorporate RjTextEd and also allow RJTextEd to interface to such gems as WinSCP. With regard to current FTP functionality, my suggestion would be to fix the current issues with FTP but then to mothball it with regard to any new development and instead spend that time on finding out which FTP tools to interface with and what is required to implement this. I mentioned WinSCP as in my experience, the developer there was very receptive to changes and improvements, much in the same way that Rickard is here - as long as he likes the idea!

When a dev doesn't want others to see his code then I find it is an impossible job to prise that code even from the dying arms of the developer. I wouldn't bother. Rickard is a developer and he works by suggestion, reason and logic but regardless his code is his 'baby'. Don't try to extract it as there is probably no likelihood of success.

Let us try to suggest alternative approaches. External APIs would allow a certain openness of code as potentially anyone could create their own plugin. I think APIs are the way forward for RJTextEd and they could allow RJtextEd to take its place as the editor of choice, if it is used inside other popular programs.
"Noli pati a scelestis opprimi"... or is it "non lacessit illegitimae te carborundum"?

You can find me on Deviantart https://www.deviantart.com/yereverluvinuncleber/gallery/

inspector71
Posts: 153
Joined: 22 Sep 2017 07:59

Re: SFTP - Refresh button

Post by inspector71 »

"Don't" tell me what to do.

Re-implementing existing functionality instead of bug fixing that functionality - which may only take a small amount of a secondary developer's time relative to rebuilding that functionally from scratch within the limits of an extension API - is counter productive.

Looks like we are very close to "put up or shut up" territory along with "hey, just because your workflow component is busted [has been irregularly but constantly for years], don't threaten my editor".

Checked out the extension doc.

Writing extensions is beyond my current resources / abilities.

Suspect is best I go back to Komodo. Nobody there is adding to my daily headaches by suggesting buggy functionality critical to my workflow is taking too much of a single developer project's resources. Nor suggesting I rewrite the wheel. There is a company of sorts behind Komodo as well. Company that has lasted the test of time without redefining itself to 'pivot' focus to whatever the latest trend-obsessed opinionated coding blogs are pushing. For example, they remain supporters of Perl developers and there's nothing wing with that. Their code is open, ... albeit dependant on the performance-challenged version of Gecko prior to the Quantum upgrade. Their SFTP implementation is based on a third party library and works quite well. Yep, it even has little texty bits saying "connection cached at X:XX time" so you know if the status you're seeing is likely accurate and, if you suspect not ... wait for it, they even have a refresh button so you can quickly check! WoW ... futuristic huh? Better still, their 'site' definitions become local drive equivalents in the UX where they are listed immediately under local drives in the same panel.
  • C:
  • D:
  • SITEA
  • SITEB
  • ...
Makes me feel more like my workflow is a top level part of the program and makes mind map UX sense, instead of how I feel coming in here when frequently having to write bug threads.

To think, all I was really asking about was a single refresh button with functionality to match ... yet look what the thread has become!

All without a word from the man himself.

Retiring from this thread.

All the best
Last edited by inspector71 on 22 Mar 2021 13:29, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
pjj
Posts: 1934
Joined: 13 Oct 2009 13:48
Location: Kraków, Poland

Re: SFTP - Refresh button

Post by pjj »

"Extensions" in this regard
are just script files that are run at startup
Plugins (or whatever you choose to call them: add-ons, extensions, etc.) are applications that can be run from within "base" program; they come as exe or dll files; think Character Viewer, Image List Editor, RJ Syntax Editor Tidy, Zen -- these are all plugins (created or adapted by Rickard) to play along with RJ TE. Now, the idea would be to publish technical specification, so someone apt with Pascal -- or any other compiled language -- would be able to write such application.

Right now you can send e.g. text of a document opened in RJ TE to a service (e.g. static code analyzer) and capture output in another tab; a plugin could send the same text to the service (local or external), capture the output, parse it, then add visual hints (e.g. as a underlines or markings on the gutter) and tooltips, so you wouldn't have to switch between tabs, but have it nicely presented in the current one. I really don't think this could be achieved via RJ TE's FastScript scripts system.
Alium tibi quaere fratrem; hic, quem tuum putas, meus est. Titus Flāvius Caesar Vespasiānus Augustus

User avatar
pjj
Posts: 1934
Joined: 13 Oct 2009 13:48
Location: Kraków, Poland

Re: SFTP - Refresh button

Post by pjj »

yereverluvinuncleber wrote:
22 Mar 2021 12:27
With regard to APIs in general: (...)

Back to FTP: (...)
Well put, completely agree.
Alium tibi quaere fratrem; hic, quem tuum putas, meus est. Titus Flāvius Caesar Vespasiānus Augustus

User avatar
yereverluvinuncleber
Posts: 297
Joined: 20 Apr 2018 09:49

Re: SFTP - Refresh button

Post by yereverluvinuncleber »

inspector71 wrote:
22 Mar 2021 12:41
"Don't" tell me what to do.
Inspector71 throws a tantrum - seen that before! :-D Inspector71, I think perhaps we are divided by a common language and you perhaps need to read the things people say but not assume they are directed personally at you or at anyone in particular. I hadn't even realised you were in the discussion, and so you can now assume no-one is telling you to do anything!

Then you returned to the thread to pad out your post - good to have you back on the thread! From your tone you have taken umbrage to something, goodness knows what. Your request for some new functionality may well be answered by Rickard, that's up to him - the chat just took a deviation for a little while, it should not upset you. I can only apologise and suggest that we can always take it to another thread. PJJ, shall we do that?

With regard to FTP.

I know what it is like to add features, I often do that myself - it is fun but then due to that, feature-creep rears its ugly head and it can distract from the core product. Replicating what others do can lead to personal growth in experience and technical know-how and that is an achievement in itself. However, when some functionality has been done many times before and in itself is a substantial body of work it will eventually lead to the dev being sidetracked.

PS. I think a refresh button is a good idea.
Last edited by yereverluvinuncleber on 22 Mar 2021 14:08, edited 1 time in total.
"Noli pati a scelestis opprimi"... or is it "non lacessit illegitimae te carborundum"?

You can find me on Deviantart https://www.deviantart.com/yereverluvinuncleber/gallery/

User avatar
pjj
Posts: 1934
Joined: 13 Oct 2009 13:48
Location: Kraków, Poland

Re: SFTP - Refresh button

Post by pjj »

inspector71 wrote:
22 Mar 2021 12:41
To think, all I was really asking about was a single refresh button with functionality to match ... yet look what the thread has become!
That's the beauty of a real human conversation :) You never know where it'll go.
inspector71 wrote:
22 Mar 2021 12:41
All without a word from the man himself.
Yes, it would be much better if Rickard frequented this forum more often, but I understand he's immersed in another activity (fulfilling his professional duties, I presume). We all have such periods of time when we need to focus on one important thing (that brings us bread and butter) and brush aside side projects (which don't). I am pretty sure he will react, eventually.

Image
inspector71 wrote:
22 Mar 2021 12:41
Retiring from this thread.
Please just make a short pause instead ;) (if you really need a pause, that is).
Alium tibi quaere fratrem; hic, quem tuum putas, meus est. Titus Flāvius Caesar Vespasiānus Augustus

Post Reply